# Astar dApp Staking v3 Dynamic Tier Thresholds review proposal
**URL:** https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874
**Category:** Astar
**Created:** [May 27, 2024, 6:26am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874 "2024-05-27T06:26:39Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Ivan](https://forum.astar.network/u/Ivan)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2024, 6:26am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/1 "2024-05-27T06:26:39Z")
## Astar dApp Staking v3 Dynamic Tier Thresholds review proposal
The proposal aims to bring clarity, resolution and trust back to Astar Developers
**What is the issue?**
As per this [Google Spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12dbvZGE1vWghf_9hV6qBmDRar1ktNQ78jRahJS1UReg/edit?usp=sharing), created on the 4th May 2024, Astar Total Value Locked (TVL) is 1.77B (21%) and not 3.145B ASTR tokens (37%).
Information provided on Astar Dashboard and Astar dApp Staking Dashboard is inaccurate.
**Why is it important that this information is accurate?**
Because dApp Staking v3 proposal and Astar Tokenomics 2.0 were proposed almost a year ago assuming that Astar TVL would be 3.5B ASTR tokens (42%), as per [Astar Tokenomics Assessment](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ojs4EyH4vzZTdQAsnx68nb2manDUtrh2/view?usp=drivesdk).
The difference on Astar TVL has a significant impact on the rewards distributed to dApps as part of Astar Build-to-earn program, which is one of the biggest value propositions for Developers to choose building on Astar.
**Can you prove that the recommendations proposed by MVP workshop, when preparing Astar Tokenomics 2.0, are not aligned with the current state of dApp staking TVL?**
- Astar Tokenomics Assessment was developed by MVP Workshop on July 2023.
- At the time of the report, 3.167B ASTR were staked.
- As per page 14, Initial TVL requirements (thresholds) are based on the current state of dApp staking TVL and on the suggestions and wishes of the Astar team. Initial thresholds are as follows:
- Tier1 - 300 000 000 ASTR (8.57% of staking TVL)
- Tier2 - 75 000 000 ASTR (2.14% of staking TVL)
- Tier3 - 15 000 000 ASTR (0.43% of staking TVL)
- Tier4 - 1 000 000 ASTR (0.03% of staking TVL)
- Meaning, Tier 1 threshold for dApp Staking v3 was to be set as 277M ASTR, then later adjusted to be a range between 200M and 300M ASTR.
- As per page 26, it was estimated as 3.5B ASTR the initial staking TVL at the time of releasing dApp Staking v3 to run all the simulations; meaning, no simulations were run for the current state of dApp staking TVL (1.77B ASTR).
- As proven on this [Google Spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12dbvZGE1vWghf_9hV6qBmDRar1ktNQ78jRahJS1UReg/edit?usp=sharing), created on the 4th May 2024, Astar Total Value Locked (TVL) is 1.77B ASTR.
**So, what is the impact?**
- If we were to adjust Tier1 threshold to the current staking TVL, its value would be 151M ASTR; adjusting the threshold to a Dynamic threshold, it would be set as 200M - 100M (instead of the current 300M - 200M).
- The same adjustment applies to Tier2 and Tier3, but not Tier4 has it was set to 1M and constant.
**What are the conclusions of this assessment?**
- As per Astar Tokenomics Assessment page 14, Tier TVL thresholds were proposed ‘based on the current state of dApp staking TVL’.
- Unfortunately, 1.23B ASTR remains unstaked since the release of dApp Staking v3 on the 12th February 2024; that’s a significant deviation (2x) from all the simulations run when the new Astar tokenomics report was developed (July 2023).
**What is our proposal?**
- Astar Networks to incentivize the participation of the community supporting their favorite projects.
- Evaluate with MVP Workshop the impact of adjusting the Tiers threshold to the current state of dApp staking TVL.
As an example, our proposed Dynamic Tier thresholds if 1.77B ASTR were staked would be:
- Tier1 - 100M - 200M ASTR (8.57% of staking TVL).
- Tier2 - 25M - 50M (2.14% of staking TVL).
- Tier3 - 5M - 10M ASTR (0.43% of staking TVL).
- Tier4 - 500K ASTR (0.03% of staking TVL).
- Implement a linear distribution of rewards instead of non-linear thresholds, such as the proposal presented by @you425 on this [post](https://forum.astar.network/t/dapp-staking-v3-tier-algorithm-adjustment-proosal/6411).
As Developers, stakers and users of Astar and Astar zkEVM ourselves, we want Astar Network to be the best blockchain for all stakeholders involved as part of the community.
Please support this proposal!
Screenshots taken on the 4th May 2024
---
### Author:  [@Ivan](https://forum.astar.network/u/Ivan)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2024, 6:58am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/2 "2024-05-27T06:58:09Z")
@you425 I have read multiple of your posts re: dApp Staking v3 improvements and really like your work! Can you please peer review my proposal and let me know your thoughts?
This proposal recommends the review of the Tier thresholds, which in my opinion is compatible with the implementation of dynamic distribution of rewards, as per your proposal on this [post](https://forum.astar.network/t/dapp-staking-v3-tier-algorithm-adjustment-proosal/6411)
---
### Author:  [@you425](https://forum.astar.network/u/you425)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2024, 7:35am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/3 "2024-05-27T07:35:33Z")
Thanks for the proposal!
I agree with you.
(For some reason I can’t open the link in your first post, so I’m going by the text of the post only)
The TVL shown on the Portal is only the amount of ASTR locked, not the TVS (Total Value Staked). It makes sense to change the threshold as long as the TVS differs significantly from the original assumption (TVL).
And since it is not reasonable to manually vary the threshold every time the TVS changes, it is better to create logic that allows it to change dynamically.
With the current logic, the threshold changes as the slots increase or decrease. This would mean adding additional logic to dynamically change the upper and lower limits.
This is just an example, but we have put together a simple logic that dynamically determines the minimum and maximum threshold values based on the values in the report.
In this logic, a factor is applied to TVS and then rounded according to Tier. In addition, a minimum threshold is added for each Tier. This is done to prevent extreme threshold drops (e.g., when reset at the beginning of a period).
- Tier1: MIN Amonut: Rounding down to the 8th digit (minimum: 150M)
- Tier2: MIN Amonut: Rounding down to the 7th digit (minimum: 25M)
- Tier3: MIN Amonut: Rounding down to the 6th digit (minimum: 7.5M)
- Tier4: MIN Amonut: Rounding down to the 5th digit (minimum: 1M)
- Common: MAX Amount: MIN Amount \* 1.5
This is an example, and I am sure there are other patterns.
---
### Author:  [@Ivan](https://forum.astar.network/u/Ivan)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2024, 8:04am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/4 "2024-05-27T08:04:58Z")
Thank you for your feedback @you425!
I have updated the format of my first post, so you should be able to open all the links now 😄
---
### Author:  [@DustinLee](https://forum.astar.network/u/DustinLee)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2024, 8:13am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/5 "2024-05-27T08:13:53Z")
Please give us some support on this! @Leo @gl_r93 @Bear_Stearns @Matt @knacker65 @0xRamz Thank you.
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### Author:  [@you425](https://forum.astar.network/u/you425)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2024, 8:27am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/6 "2024-05-27T08:27:05Z")
I can confirm that, thank you!
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### Author:  [@Matt](https://forum.astar.network/u/Matt)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2024, 8:36am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/7 "2024-05-27T08:36:33Z")
This proposal makes a lot of sense. It’s focused on adjusting reward thresholds to match the current investments in Astar, which seems both fair and necessary.
The idea of making rewards distribution fairer is definitely a step in the right direction. Good to see proactive thinking like this in the community!
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### Author:  [@SFY\_Labs](https://forum.astar.network/u/SFY_Labs)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2024, 10:12am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/8 "2024-05-27T10:12:47Z")
> [@Ivan](#):
>
> Implement a linear distribution of rewards instead of non-linear thresholds, such as the proposal presented by @you425 on this [post](https://forum.astar.network/t/dapp-staking-v3-tier-algorithm-adjustment-proosal/6411).
Hi, We’ve been saying this for 3 months, it’s encouraging to see that even those in higher tiers are experiencing a problem. Dapp staking currently cannot work for anyone and creates huge disagreements in the community. Maybe there is some ambassador who should take a look around the forum to see what the developers really think at the moment. We will be excluded from dapp staking because we were unable to develop as we began to no longer receive rewards.
It’s sad to see that when we wrote it, however, we were almost humiliated in the responses we received. Now things will probably change… We consider @you425 ideas to improve the current situation.
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### Author:  [@Leo](https://forum.astar.network/u/Leo)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2024, 12:01pm UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/9 "2024-05-27T12:01:46Z")
DApp staking is an important factor for developers and is the only area where the ASTR token is actively used.
Unfortunately, promises made during the update to dapp staking v3 were not kept, and most projects earned 50% less than the number of rewards they deserved. The main reasons for this are that the team rushed the update process.
During this period, projects in the ecosystem were affected, and many projects have given up on developing in the Astar Network ecosystem. When I spoke with many project owners, including Josiah, their biggest complaint was what I mentioned above.
In addition to supporting the proposal mentioned above, I also recommend supporting the projects of the Astar Network.
---
### Author:  [@Mouthmouth68](https://forum.astar.network/u/Mouthmouth68)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2024, 2:17pm UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/10 "2024-05-27T14:17:48Z")
I strongly support @Ivan’s proposal.
In addition, I beleive that @you425 linear distribution presented in his post [dApp staking v3 - tier algorithm adjustment proosal](https://forum.astar.network/t/dapp-staking-v3-tier-algorithm-adjustment-proosal/6411) is also an unavoidable modification to make to system fair.
I would also suggest to include a modification of the Bonus rewards mechanisme as per my proposal since it has the tendancy to handcuff for 4 months or penalize dApp staker who want to switch their stake to support another project in need of it during B2E periode ( [dApps Staking v3 - proposal - #142 by Mouthmouth68](https://forum.astar.network/t/dapps-staking-v3-proposal/4206/142) )
As mentioned by @Leo, I feel too that staking V3 has been rushed just to follow a calendar instead of being carfully tested on shiden and improved based on community and dApp teams feedback.
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### Author:  [@Dino](https://forum.astar.network/u/Dino)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2024, 2:29pm UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/11 "2024-05-27T14:29:12Z")
Hello @Ivan, a few answers to your observation & comments.
> [@Ivan](#):
>
> As per Astar Tokenomics Assessment page 14, Tier TVL thresholds were proposed ‘based on the current state of dApp staking TVL’.
We’ve identified that relying on TVL wasn’t the way for the very same reason you describe - expected discrepancy between locked & staked amounts. Therefore all the rewards, thresholds, configs are calculated based on _Total Value Staked_. It has been like that since the deployment of the v3. This was shared in previous posts & is described in the docs.
So there’s nothing to adjust compared to TVL, what matters is _Total Value Staked_.
That’s the amount that’s actively participating in the protocol, TVL is irrelevant.
* * *
> [@Ivan](#):
>
> Implement a linear distribution of rewards instead of non-linear thresholds, such as the proposal presented by @you425 on this [post](https://forum.astar.network/t/dapp-staking-v3-tier-algorithm-adjustment-proosal/6411).
Already covered this in the other forum post, and it’s being discussed.
Essentially, it’s been almost implemented and will be deployed soon on Shibuya.
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### Author:  [@adeeqasad2](https://forum.astar.network/u/adeeqasad2)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2024, 6:03pm UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/12 "2024-05-27T18:03:52Z")
The proposal is well-structured, and convincing; I think it’s a great direction for the project. I vote aye for this proposal
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### Author:  [@Vangardem](https://forum.astar.network/u/Vangardem)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2024, 1:53pm UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/13 "2024-05-28T13:53:57Z")
Perhaps the logic cannot be changed, but you could consider creating a special fund for projects that do not reach the V3 threshold, but are still working:
- The core team could estimate this and divert part of the tokens to be burned to quality projects.
- We are at a crucial phase in the development of Astar and it needs to expand the ecosystem to grow.
- I know it is difficult to remove the deflationary supply (token burn), another way out is to redistribute tokens more equitably to all tiers, and in this way everyone will be benefited.
- It may be a conjunction of all the above.
---
### Author:  [@Ivan](https://forum.astar.network/u/Ivan)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2024, 11:30pm UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/14 "2024-05-28T23:30:42Z")
Thank you for your feedback @Dino and @you425.
I have reviewed Astar Docs and have not been able to find a page/section explaining how the Tier Thresholds were calculated. The only official documentation that I have found is [Astar Tokenomics Assessment](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ojs4EyH4vzZTdQAsnx68nb2manDUtrh2/view).
If _‘all the rewards, thresholds, configs are calculated based on Total Value Staked’_, can you please let me know where I can find in Astar Docs the formula used to calculate the Tier Thresholds?
In addition, if Total Value Staked is the key parameter for dApp Staking v3, where in [Astar Dashboard](https://portal.astar.network/astar/dashboard) can I find the ‘Total Value Staked’? At this stage, the information provided is ‘Total Value Locked’. Note that on the chart pie below 3.122B ASTR are classified as ‘Staking’, which in my opinion should be labelled as ‘Locked’.
Please correct me if I am wrong but I think that:
- Thresholds were set using the Total Value Locked/Staked in July 2023. At the time there was no significant difference between TLV and TVS.
- Unfortunately, since the release of dApp Staking v3, approx 1.77B have been staked (are the remaining 1.352B ASTR are locked but not staked?). If that is the case, there is a significant difference between TLV and TVS, which is impacting vDapp Staking v3 and should be addressed asap.
I reiterate my proposal for the Tier Thresholds to be dynamically calculated using the Total Value Staked as a reference, and not using the Tier Thresholds set using the TLV/TVS in July 2023.
---
### Author:  [@Leo](https://forum.astar.network/u/Leo)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2024, 6:34am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/15 "2024-05-29T06:34:58Z")
We just reached Tier 2 with 314 million astr. Hopefully, it will last for a week.
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### Author:  [@you425](https://forum.astar.network/u/you425)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2024, 7:10am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/16 "2024-05-29T07:10:12Z")
Information on how to calculate thresholds can be found here.
> **[dApp Staking v3 Technical Overview | Astar Docs](https://docs.astar.network/docs/learn/dapp-staking/dapp-staking-protocol/#tier-system)**
>
> Introduction
And here is the threshold range
> **[dApp Staking Parameters | Astar Docs](https://docs.astar.network/docs/learn/dapp-staking/protocol-parameters/#network-values)**
>
> Overview
Since the v3 threshold started at the lowest value, the ASTR price has decreased, resulting in fewer slots, and as a result, the threshold is now increasing. However, it seems to be deviating from the original assumption and a request to fix it was pull requwsted yesterday.
They will be upgraded today.
>
>
> \## Pull Request Summary
>
> Fixes an issue with threshold calculation in dApp sta…king.
>
> The issue happens because the formula for tier threshold update did not account for threshold value saturation.
> As \`ASTR\` price increased, so did the number of available slots, and as a result, thresholds saturated at the minimum possible value. Number of slots could keep increasing, while the thresholds remained the same.
>
> But as ASTR price dropped, this brought a negative change in the number of slots. Since number of slots was way
> larger than the base number of slots, this seemed as a larger change that it was supposed to be, in respect to the current threshold.
>
> This fix changes the way threshold is calculated so that the \`new\_number\_of\_slots\` is always compared to the \`base\_number\_of\_slots\`. This way ensures thresholds are always updated in respect to what the \_baseline\_ is.
>
> \## Note
>
> \* issue was reproduced first using the new unit test
> \* fix was verified on a chain fork using chopsticks
Currently, TVS is only used to calculate Staker’s compensation. It does not affect the threshold.
The only thing that affects the threshold is the increase or decrease in slots (i.e., ASTR price changes).
---
### Author:  [@you425](https://forum.astar.network/u/you425)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2024, 7:10am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/17 "2024-05-29T07:10:43Z")
As mentioned above, it appears that the parameters are currently unexpected.
I was told this will be corrected today.
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### Author:  [@Ivan](https://forum.astar.network/u/Ivan)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2024, 7:58am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/18 "2024-05-29T07:58:53Z")
Thank you @you425
As per Astar Documentation and noted by you, TVS does not affect the Tiers Threshold.
As per screenshot above, Tier 1 Threshold is set to Dynamic (300M/200M).
It is my understanding that:
- The MIN and MAX for each Tier were set in July 2023, as per Astar Tokenomics Assessment
- There is a significant deviation between the TVL and TVS; it was not the case in July 2023
I think MIN and MAX for each Tier should be dynamically calculated based on the TVS, which is not currently the case.
---
### Author:  [@you425](https://forum.astar.network/u/you425)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2024, 9:33am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/19 "2024-05-29T09:33:02Z")
Yes, that is correct.
I think the logic needs to be modified if the community deems it necessary.
---
### Author:  [@Dino](https://forum.astar.network/u/Dino)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2024, 9:52am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874/20 "2024-05-29T09:52:09Z")
The only thing affecting adjustable staker rewards is TVS. It has no direct effect on dApp/developer rewards. Of course, the implicit effect is that _certain_ amount needs to be staked for dApps to reach thresholds and enter tiers.
@Leo what’s happening now is a bug. It will be fixed today, and you’ll see drastically reduced thresholds from tomorrow.
> [@Ivan](#):
>
> I think MIN and MAX for each Tier should be dynamically calculated based on the TVS, which is not currently the case.
The 300M/200M aren’t MIN and MAX, but starting value, and minimum value.
For the TVS impact, I completely disagree, that’s not the path we should take. If TVS is low, it means there’s low engagement level and no one’s probably using dApps. Why reward that?
The protocol benefits from a high TVL & TVS. The more lock/staked value we get, the more stable & high ASTR price should be, and as a result projects can earn more.
[Next page](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-dapp-staking-v3-dynamic-tier-thresholds-review-proposal/6874.md?page=2)