# Astar Townhall - Offchain Governance **URL:** \ **Category:** Astar\ **Created:** [June 7, 2024, 12:25pm UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950 "2024-06-07T12:25:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bao](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/bao/32/1809_2.png) [@bao](https://forum.astar.network/u/bao)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 2:50am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/42 "2024-08-29T02:50:14Z")
I’d like to discuss the matter of this vote being passed by two whales. > **[ASTAR Product Development by Townhall - Proposal in Townhall House Astar Network](https://astargov.com/astar/post/0x7ed0a09061750a32b2d3b6c80d5d3b4eae6d90217963e7ca170395b39a6d0766)** > > TL;DR > The discussion outlines the scope of a strategic collaboration between Townhall (Polka Labs Pte. Ltd.) and Astar Network Treasury to research and develop the governance infrastructure and supporting products for the Astar Network ecosystem. The... I’m concerned about the possibility of similar situations occurring in the future. While I have no objections since this vote was conducted according to the rules, it does raise some concerns. ---
**Author:** ![pithecus](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/pithecus/32/5678_2.png) [@pithecus](https://forum.astar.network/u/pithecus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2024, 7:39am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/43 "2024-08-29T07:39:17Z")
Hi Bao, indeed, I also am concerned about such a situation. I have been thinking about potential means after doing some research, and let me share some of them. - Quadratic Voting: Using this quadratic approach, voting power would be determined by the square root of the ASTR held. This way, even smaller wallets could have relatively high voting power compared to a single entity with a large amount of ASTR. This approach could encourage more community members to participate, as they might feel their votes carry more weight, rather than feeling like their participation (vote) is negligible. - Voting Power Cap: While it may seem too simplistic, having a cap on voting power could be a straightforward solution worth discussing. - Activity History in the Astar Network Ecosystem: We could also consider the number of txs or the frequency of reward claims as a measure of a voter’s engagement in the ecosystem. This could help ensure that those who have been consistently active in the network have more influence. Of course, there are still potential challenges, such as the possibility of users splitting their ASTR across multiple wallets to maximize their voting power under a quadratic system. However, I believe exploring and discussing these options could lead to meaningful improvements, if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![you425](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/you425/32/3313_2.png) [@you425](https://forum.astar.network/u/you425)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 5:16am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/44 "2024-08-30T05:16:27Z")
That is a good suggestion. In addition to that, I believe that there should be a quorum. However, given the current rate of participation in governance, if there is a quorum, the proposal will not be able to decide anything. It would need to be possible to delegate to use this. ---
**Author:** ![VasaKing](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/vasaking/32/1568_2.png) [@VasaKing](https://forum.astar.network/u/VasaKing)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 9:32am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/45 "2024-08-30T09:32:12Z")
Totally agree , I don’t think is a good image for Astar. I mean the vote passed after a whale vote , where is no difference with Dot governance at this point and the whole narrative of decentralization falls apart. I like the points You have shared but on the other side is really easy to create a brand new wallet and ¨participate¨ in anonymous way. We definitely need to find a good solution which feets everybody (new joiners and present users) ---
**Author:** ![bao](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/bao/32/1809_2.png) [@bao](https://forum.astar.network/u/bao)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 10:26am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/46 "2024-08-30T10:26:42Z")
Thank you for providing specific methods. I think we should delve deeper into the discussion about the “Activity History in the Astar Network Ecosystem.” Looking at the voting history of the two whales, I found that they had only participated in this particular vote. If we could weaken the voting power of wallets that don’t regularly participate in governance, and conversely strengthen the voting power of actively participating wallets, we might see an increase in governance participants and avoid biased results like we had this time. We also need a more comprehensive approach to address the whale issue, so as you425 suggests, we should implement a “delegate” system. In other words, it means creating multiple trustworthy delegates who collectively have enough voting power to counterbalance the whales. ---
**Author:** ![pitcoin777](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/pitcoin777/32/1912_2.png) [@pitcoin777](https://forum.astar.network/u/pitcoin777)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2024, 11:42am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/47 "2024-09-03T11:42:33Z")
That’s a fair point but also "skin in the game"is something we should consider… whales have strong conviction in ASTR we can just ignore it. > [@bao](#): > > If we could weaken the voting power of wallets that don’t regularly participate in governance, and conversely strengthen the voting power of actively participating wallets, we might see an increase in governance participants and avoid biased results like we had this time. ---
**Author:** ![bao](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/bao/32/1809_2.png) [@bao](https://forum.astar.network/u/bao)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2024, 5:06am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/48 "2024-09-10T05:06:49Z")
That’s a great point. I feel we need to implement a delegate system to be able to communicate with whales on an equal footing. ---
**Author:** ![Vangardem](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/vangardem/32/2184_2.png) [@Vangardem](https://forum.astar.network/u/Vangardem)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2024, 2:30pm UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/49 "2024-09-10T14:30:22Z")
Good debate guys, I had already announced some time ago that the voting system in polkadot was flawed, we should not replicate that same system, look how polkadot is, they have emptied the treasury the whales, finding a balance point would be totally healthy and acceptable. Right now a solution could be included without limiting the participation of the community, but if from the “whales”, the delegates thing sounds good but in view of my long following of the voting system in polkadot I can add: 1. a system of reversal of decisions in case of abuse by the whales, that there be a technical congress to determine if indeed the approval of a proposal is healthy for the ecosystem. 2. I do not have much confidence in the delegate system, since abuse can be repeated. 3. I know there may be controversy since the congress is somewhat centralized, but Astar is not mature enough to assume 100% of this system, it is a reality that we must adjust the system as we go along. 4. My comments may cause discomfort but I would rather get wet now and not see Astar in the same condition as the Polkadot treasury is right now. ---
**Author:** ![pitcoin777](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/pitcoin777/32/1912_2.png) [@pitcoin777](https://forum.astar.network/u/pitcoin777)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2024, 5:21pm UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/50 "2024-09-10T17:21:06Z")
Decentralization is not lack of direction - I am totally in favor of a council having something like 50% of the weight votes and community having 50% of the weight votes. And the council should be formed by X number of seats representing Astar Foundation, Startale, Ecosystem Agents, etc… I am just thinking out loud and trying to figure it out a way to combine the two models. ---
**Author:** ![Vangardem](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/vangardem/32/2184_2.png) [@Vangardem](https://forum.astar.network/u/Vangardem)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2024, 6:37pm UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/51 "2024-09-10T18:37:00Z")
I believe that decentralization is dangerous if there is no proper direction, just look at Polkadot. It really is a disgrace what their governance became. I agree that a council should be formed to evaluate proper decisions after all the treasury is for the benefit of the protocol not a few. ---
**Author:** ![bao](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/bao/32/1809_2.png) [@bao](https://forum.astar.network/u/bao)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 6:45am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/52 "2024-09-15T06:45:53Z")
These are very insightful points. > [@Vangardem](#): > > - a system of reversal of decisions in case of abuse by the whales, that there be a technical congress to determine if indeed the approval of a proposal is healthy for the ecosystem. > - I do not have much confidence in the delegate system, since abuse can be repeated. > - I know there may be controversy since the congress is somewhat centralized, but Astar is not mature enough to assume 100% of this system, it is a reality that we must adjust the system as we go along. > - My comments may cause discomfort but I would rather get wet now and not see Astar in the same condition as the Polkadot treasury is right now. I agree with you that by discussing it now, we can avoid repeating past mistakes. Instead of a simple delegate system that reflects token numbers, a system where people who are delegated a certain number of tokens have one voting right could prevent abuse. ---
**Author:** ![bao](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/bao/32/1809_2.png) [@bao](https://forum.astar.network/u/bao)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2024, 6:48am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/53 "2024-09-15T06:48:39Z")
This idea is excellent. Having two council could prevent unreasonable proposals from being passed. > [@pitcoin777](#): > > I am totally in favor of a council having something like 50% of the weight votes and community having 50% of the weight votes. And the council should be formed by X number of seats representing Astar Foundation, Startale, Ecosystem Agents, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Matt](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/matt/32/1502_2.png) [@Matt](https://forum.astar.network/u/Matt)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2024, 8:46pm UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/54 "2024-09-16T20:46:53Z")
I agreewe should not make the same mistakes that were done with Polkadot’s system. A reversal mechanism for whale abuse and a technical congress for oversight over proposals sound pretty good. While this does carry some centralization with it, balance will be needed once Astar has matured to avoid similar issues. ---
**Author:** ![Vangardem](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/vangardem/32/2184_2.png) [@Vangardem](https://forum.astar.network/u/Vangardem)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 11:03pm UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/55 "2024-09-19T23:03:08Z")
I agree with you BAO, you hit the nail on the head, they really are my thoughts and you have illustrated it better than me. ---
**Author:** ![Vangardem](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/vangardem/32/2184_2.png) [@Vangardem](https://forum.astar.network/u/Vangardem)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 11:05pm UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/56 "2024-09-19T23:05:59Z")
I think it is healthy, and best of all is that at any time we can use OpenGov without restrictions, as I said before it sounds somewhat antagonistic to decentralization but it is a healthy figure to avoid abuses in early stages, Astar has several years but in terms of governance system is an emerging network, I know that together we can always seek the best solutions to every problem or challenge that comes our way as agents, thanks guys. ---
**Author:** ![pithecus](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/pithecus/32/5678_2.png) [@pithecus](https://forum.astar.network/u/pithecus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2024, 8:31pm UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/57 "2024-09-30T20:31:08Z")
Perhaps we later can open a separate thread or a series of threads to discuss 1. Onchain activity (voting, staking, etc.,) history considered voting power 2. Reversal of decision function 3. Council from different parties This summary is sorely for me not to dismiss any important topics in regard to the offchain… Feel free to share / update any specific topics to also be discussed. ---
**Author:** ![bao](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/bao/32/1809_2.png) [@bao](https://forum.astar.network/u/bao)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 1:37am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/58 "2024-10-01T01:37:15Z")
I agree. I think we need to start a separate thread to discuss this topic further. I’ll go ahead and prepare that. ---
**Author:** ![pithecus](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/forum.astar.network/pithecus/32/5678_2.png) [@pithecus](https://forum.astar.network/u/pithecus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2024, 4:28am UTC](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950/59 "2024-10-01T04:28:28Z")
Thanks @bao for your effort, not sure if having them in different thread makes followup easier, but in any form, I would participate in all the three aspects and potentially other possible aspects. [Previous page](https://forum.astar.network/t/astar-townhall-offchain-governance/6950.md?page=2)