Dapp Staking 2.1 (Sections, Unbonding)

Shiden Network (Kusama) Proposal
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As has been discussed weeks ago. Dapp Staking 2.0 in @sota post here:

We have successfully, restructured the rewards and accomplished Solution number 2.

I think it is now fair to get the discussion mainly on Solution Number 1 which is:

  1. Creating 2 sections on the dApp store page. One is for live projects and the other is for pre-launch projects. People can stake tokens on all dApps and all dApps receive tokens based on the staking amount, but pre-launch projects can’t withdraw tokens till the projects are live on Shiden.

After accomplishing that of course I think the third solution we as a community should be proposing is the introduction of an unbounding period that only applies for dAapps not users.

This period can be determined by the team as they suitable. I would personally suggest 15 days as a minimum.

Leave your thoughts on solution 3, and let’s vote on Solution 2.

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15 days doesn’t seem bad to unbound. I’m for it. Dapp staking is a means for devs to operate monthly so an opportunity to withdrawn the needed funds to continue is important. Monthly cost and what not.

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May I ask what’s the reason behind 15 days unbonding reward period for Dev? imo they have already been in pre-launch period which is an unknown time. (they proved they’re in the game)

after the project’s live on Network, dev could use SDN reward as liquidity on their platform if they’re defi, or pay the third party

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Sectioning to solve freerider problems, unbounding period to reduce supply on the market. The devs don’t need to be liquidating their coins everyday.

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Whatever stops devs or community from constantly dumping coins and bleeding price of SDN into a downward spiral. Why continue to invest if holders coin value is 40% negative of purchases from a month ago.

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I could be wrong, but on-chain would reveal that apart from one dApp operator all others are hodling their SDN rewards.

Re developers liquidating, it is income for services rendered, it is their right. One way to address rewards liquidation would be to tie up nominator and/or operator rewards for a much longer tenure. I imagine once Nutbox applies crowdloan logic to Shiden, we could see the tides shifting in our favour.

However, for near/mid term perhaps a time-sensitive staking contest? @moonme is probably already thinking about this, in line with removing the 512 stakers limit.

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Yes you are wrong if I remember correctly. On-chain data doesn’t show that only one dApp is liquidating SDN. It would be good if the team can give that info here again.

That’s why @sota proposed these changes in the first place.

Free riders getting shiden and liquidating them into the market with no actual use case or product.

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Yes I would agree that the team can look into it…

And see where does the selling pressure comes from. If its indeed Dapps developer, then I guess some form of vesting , or unlock period should be applied.

Cos currently the sell pressure is way to constant. By now, those who wanted to sell from lockdrop or crowdloaners , should have done so. But the pressure is still there…

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I proposed this idea some time ago.

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But right now, we do not have the required infrastructure.

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Maybe we can take some time and make the adjustments needed for the infrastructure. You seem to be in agreement with this idea as you have proposed it before during meetings with the team. That’s good.

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Before we start accusing which dapp is bad or good, we need to always take a look at ourselves first.

Lets consider Shiden as a nation and SDN holders are the citizens.

For now, the team is the Government. They work to build the infrastructures and recruit projects into the nation. Some projects are live while some are still onboarding. Recruiting projects into the ecosystem is a marketing job.

There are a lot of projects that have applied to join the builders program and to be part of the dapp staking. Imagine what would happen if dapp staking is permisionless? Some projects are even complaining why dapp staking is permissioned! They wish they can simply list their contract on the dapp store as and when they like.

However, when the projects have progressed and made live products to generate the economy in the nation, the citizens are still unhappy. They accused the projects for being low profile and scams. This is a very bad attitude.

If the existing citizens are not excited about the nation’s own products, how do you think outsiders would want to migrate to Shiden and try the products?

It is more than just, “the team is not doing marketing”. It is a JOINT EFFORT. A JOINT EFFORT between the GOVERNMENT and the CITIZENS. While the team is bringing in products, the citizen must want to use the product. Be excited and be supportive of what are coming into Shiden. If the citizens do not show support, who else will?

In the first place, most of the holders got their tokens from lockdrop and crowdloan, which was at a minimal risk. Why not use the SDN to enrich the ecosystem e.g. adding liquidity on the dex? Instead, many of the citizens chose to sell and migrate to another nation.

This is a very sad situation. The team has never asked for public’s money but in return, many of those who have earned their tokens are in only for a quick profit without thinking that if they continued to support the ecosystem, their profit could’ve been a lot more than what it is now.

We get what you mean. You want us to do marketing to attract new users, new holders. BUT, it all starts with the existing users. There are > 30,000 SDN holders, how many are adding LP to the dexs to make the TVL look impressive? Over 6 million SDN from lockdrop have been moved from the original wallets. Had the 6 million SDN been put as LP into the dexs instead of being dumped, the TVL could’ve been >$30million and no one would say that the dex are not contributing anything to the ecosystem.

tofuNFT is going to launch anytime soon. Lets see how many of the community members are excited about the event. Always bear in mind, if you, as a citizen are not excited, DO NOT expect outsiders to be excited.

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Is there any rough draft road map that can be provided to the community that outlines the next steps? This infrastructure that @moonme and @Royal mention seems to be important for team and others alike.

@sota great job (promise kept with parachain before Christmas🎄) and a break is definitely in order for you and the team. Just curious to know about next steps besides the general ones provided.

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Can I suggest that we change the % of staking rewards.

Currently we have way too little dapps … so sdn holders who wants to grow their sdn will jave to choose those few dapps. so thus some of the dapps can get alot of free sdn even without doing much development. Thus they may be the ones that constantly selling their rewards to fund their daily operations.

Reasoning on why such a change.
Currently I’m staking 3.8k sdn. Per era I’m getting 2 sdn.
Since its 50% to dapp developers. Thus it meant that for every 3.8k sdn staked for them they are getting 2sdn too.

So if dapps have 700k sdn staked for them. It meant per era they will have free 184sdn… in terms of pricing it meant… per era they are getting $257. Though it may not seem much per era. But since its free money for them, and since there is no vesting for them. Its good for them… if a month has 28era it meant they will have $7,221 per month.

I suggest that for staking rewards to be changed to

50% to stakers.
25% to dapps developers
25% to treasury …

When there is more dapps on board we can change the 25% rewards to treasury back to dapps developers.

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Agree with this % restructuring. If I’m going to stare at what is currently a 44.7% held loss at the moment, those staking rewards better be rolling in for those of us still holding underwater and being the backbone of the ecosystem. The above post about project excitement… Well, it is not rewarding or exciting to wake up every morning and stare at a nearly 50% loss.

Code something that dynamically shifts the rewards % from favoring developers to stakers (holders) depending on the overall selling pressure. Price stable and climbing? Reward developers more %, price plummeting and continued selling pressure? Reward long-term holders for taking a massive risk, not panic selling and keeping the entire ecosystem afloat.

This is fair, and makes both Dev/Holder consider the reward reduction risks of selling off large amounts of their earnings. Without balance this will always be slanted towards market investors/holders losing. I’m in this to support cutting edge technology, however don’t consider this a charity where I can simply eat a 50% loss. There are many others like me viewing the current and long-term situation as untenable without an action plan to resolve. Those are the cold hard facts.

You want excitement? The price of SDN needs to go parabolic in the other direction where holders retain something of great value while earning modest rewards, and Developers earn substantially more % in positive upswings (and therefore need to overall sell LESS as income). That is a win-win scenario. With a dynamic % rewards system in place this is an improvement towards making that happen.

Right now, the harder SDN price dumps, the MORE SDN developers need to sell to fund operations, creating a Negative trend feedback loop. This is the cycle that needs breaking, now, and that can only happen by attracting new investors immediately and retaining existing investors with 50%+ staking earnings, until the downtrend is broken. Then eventually, even the earnings 50/50% while the SDN price is stable. Then, greatly reward Developers % when the price is in an uptrend, where they have to sell LESS SDN to fund operations - a Positive trend loop. @sota
Automatic/dynamic earning % is the way to go! Thank you for your consideration and open discussion

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