do you have something in mind that would be more attractive, suddenly access to a liquidity pool where the NFT holders and managers of a node have access to rewards? What could we offer (from Astar) to the users?
I thought I had written this in the document, but I will write it again. If this is not what you intended, could you please rephrase your question?)
In my idea, NFTs will be granted according to the continuous operation level of the nodes. Then, incentives (ASTR) will be granted according to the holding level of those NFTs. For example, Silver is 100, but Gold is 1000, etc. I think it is necessary to consider an appropriate logic for these amounts.
Additionally, the source of the distributed rewards is assumed to be listed on dApp Staking, and we envision distributing a portion of the dApp rewards.
Yes, I just saw the last point of the document where you mention it, now it is clearer to me.
In that case, the percentage of the rewards for each NFT will be strictly adjusted by the tier where the project is located which I think is not bad because this way, we can motivate each mobile node that supports in obtaining new users.
This being so, it seems to me that the rewards system is simple to understand and easy to implement for the experimental phase, I also propose to take into account a referral system or program, to increase the number of nodes in the future.
I think the referral point is very good and would like to incorporate it into the plan.
You are good at creating diagrams!
I was able to understand half of what you illustrated. To help me understand a bit more, what is the difference between ‘Mobile Astar Node’ and ‘Mobile Nodes’ in the diagram?
I’m very happy to see some developments on the rewards side for users who decide to install a node. I believe that the incentive part is fundamental to motivate users both in the short and long term. The NFT system combined with rewards seems perfect for this use case. Well done guys. Do you consider creating a proprietary dApp token? this allows users to be rewarded even if the dapp is unable to reach an adequate tier in dapp staking to be able to satisfy the rewards for users.
I hadn’t considered issuing a proprietary dApp token. Could you please explain in detail the problems you can solve by issuing a proprietary dApp token? I’d like to deepen my understanding to consider it for future incentive design.
I think it would be easier to understand if you could provide specific examples.
Oh it was just an idea of a possible alternative option to rewarding users with ASTR tokens. By creating an official dApp token you could directly reward users with that token without being dependent on dapp staking revenues. On the one hand this could be interesting but on the other there would be all the issues relating to tokenomics, initial liquidity pool to be supported in a DEX etc etc…These are considerations to be made.
A proprietary token removes your dependence, as already mentioned, on the dapp staking rewards in ASTR, which if they are low (because the dapp does not reach an adequate tier), will not be able to adequately reward the users who will be demotivated to continue with the node activity.
But this is just my idea which I hope can give a further starting point for evaluation
Thank you for your detailed response.
I understand.
As you mentioned, issuing a unique dApp token requires designing the tokenomics of the token itself. This is because if the token distributed as a reward has low value, it won’t be meaningful. The design is quite complex, so even if we introduce it, it would be much later.
However, as you have noticed, it is also true that relying solely on the rewards from dApp Staking as the reward pool has its limitations. Therefore, I believe it is necessary to have measures to enhance loyalty.
Based on @SimonB comment, I came up with the idea of ‘Basic Rewards’ without relying on dApp Staking incentives for dApp. The design is as follows:
People who want to build and operate a Mobile Node first purchase a ‘Participation Certificate NFT.’
The cost of this purchase is accumulated in a wallet account specific to this project (referred to as Account A).
Account A stakes in the ‘Mobile Node’ project listed in dApp Staking.
The staking rewards obtained in step 3 form the Basic Reward Pool, from which Mobile Node operators are equally distributed rewards once a month.
The ‘Participation Certificate NFT’ is an NFT required to join the ‘Mobile Node Community.’
Participants with the Medal ‘Beginner’ or higher are eligible for Basic Rewards.
If a participant stops operating the Mobile Node, the ‘Participation Certificate NFT’ is discarded, and the purchase amount is refunded to the participant.
If the operation is stopped, the ‘Medal NFT,’ which serves as proof of operation, will be marked as inactive and remain in the participant’s wallet.
The ‘Participation Certificate NFT’ is assumed to be created as an SBT, and the ‘Medal NFT’ as a dynamic NFT.
This way, regardless of the amount of the Basic Reward, users who continue to operate will receive some reward.
This is still an idea, but I would appreciate any comments on problems, issues, or improvement points.
I really love this kind of solution @tksarah !!! You can also make that the MEDAL NFT (beginner, bronze,silver…) change if an user is inactive…For example:
I reach the silver medal, but after that I will be inactive…My medal will downgrade to Bronze…If I stay inactive more and more my medal will downgrade more and more until you arrive to Starter medal (with no basic reward).
You could set a minimum of inactive days for every downgrade
Your overall approach seems solid, but I am against selling NFTs as a requirement for participation for several reasons:
Investment Expectation: Even if participants get their funds back when they leave, they may start expecting an investment return, which could significantly shift the incentives for running nodes (e.g., moving from a support-oriented to a profit-driven approach).
Financial Barrier: Depending on the price, purchasing an NFT could create a financial barrier, diminishing the advantage of using spare mobile devices as nodes.
Scalability and Pricing: If NFTs are sold, reaching higher tiers would either require high prices or selling them in large quantities, which may not be feasible or realistic.
Given the current proposal, since this project would contribute to decentralizing nodes on the Astar Network, how about participating in dApp Staking through the DAO Treasury instead? The DAO Treasury has 372M ASTR, which should be sufficient to stake the amount needed for Tier 2. This project can be considered a public good for Astar, so using the DAO Treasury for dApp Staking in this context would be a reasonable option.
Actually You have raised valid points , I will prefer to have a community driven (and not financially ) incentives program.
I don’t think any special collab or tokens are required and we can try to build a community which is focused on Astar growth. I still need to think about the idea and will update You here @tksarah
I understand “2”. Indeed, this is an unavoidable obstacle.
As for “3”, there might be a slight misunderstanding.
Instead of directing the sales of NFTs to the project’s dApp, we assume that these will be staked in dApp Staking as usual by the account that normally stakes, accumulate the rewards, and then distribute them as Basic Rewards.
I didn’t quite understand point 1.
However, we strongly believe in contributing to the ecosystem in terms of node operation, and I agree that we shouldn’t pursue a profit-driven approach as you suggested.
Regarding the proposal to use the DAO treasury, is my understanding correct as follows?
Stake the amount needed for Tier 2 from the DAO treasury to the “Mobile Node” dApp
This allows for the rewards that can be earned at Tier 2
These rewards are distributed to Mobile Node operators
The logic of who is distributed to and the amount, etc., will be based on requirements (e.g., the aforementioned “Medal NFT” concept)
If this understanding is correct and this is possible, it might be simple. (Of course, we must ultimately obtain community agreement after proposing it.)
By the way, I am writing notes sequentially in the Japanese version, so please refer to them if you like. (I post a somewhat organized version in the Forum) Link
I think a simple way to prevent the buying and selling of NFTs and to allow node operators to make a profit over and above the support they generate is to do this:
A manual process of monitoring by a group of stakeholders. Something similar to what you already do with the peers program, @tksarah, where, at the end of the month, you evaluate the performance and parameters that each node must meet to receive their rewards at the end of the month, as simple as that.
This model is not scalable, of course, but we will worry about scalability later, we need to plan a functional model that can be tested.
Yes, the content you suggested is included in the ‘Medal NFT’ concept I proposed a while back. This was devised to provide motivation, and to earn a high medal within this system, stable node operation is required.
This means establishing and setting up a monitoring system within the community.
The performance you refer to would be ‘high availability,’ and the parameter would be ‘System uptime.’ Creating a system to evaluate these should not be difficult.
Since maintaining very high availability is not easy, operators with the ability to maintain it should have an appropriate incentive.
I understand. You mean to distribute rewards on the dApp side in addition to the Staker rewards in dApp Staking.
However, in this case, unless the project reaches at least Tier 4, the incentives might be lower than regular staking, which could make it appear worse than doing nothing.
I assume that general users will not stake in this project. Infrastructure-related projects are difficult for the general user to understand in terms of their utility, and they are more likely to stake in projects that are straightforward and provide returns directly to them. Therefore, reaching a high Tier with this method is very challenging, making it difficult to establish a system that provides additional incentives to node participants.
In the past year, a speculative fundraising method called “node sale” has been popular mainly for DePIN-based projects. Although the actual situation is different, the form of this sale is similar to this one and may unnecessarily stir up speculation.
Briefly, in a node sale, the right to operate a node is purchased in the form of NFTs, which are then activated to operate the node and earn tokens. It is very similar.
Yes, that’s what it comes down to, so don’t worry too much about the above comment.
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