Ambassador Program / Dual Roles

[psneemo]

Thanks @FFR23 for raising such a critical topic. And kudos to you for braving through the arguments so far and holding your rational ground and carefully responding to each of the questions that were raised.

I agree that oftentimes within a decentralized community like this, rationale can take a back-seat because some members might be more emotional about things. From what I have seen so far, Astar Community has a majority of members who are rational and support a healthy and positive discussion. And its good to have folks like yourselves reminding us of the template-like fluff that some ambassadors can end up using.

With regards to the conflict of interest, I agree. I think any developer/member of a protocol will first have a bias towards that protocol itself as opposed to Astar Network. But I think there’s nothing wrong with that too because at the end of the day the entire Astar community will survive only when we have so many applications and developers building on it. Thus, if some do end up becoming ambassadors its still okay.

What we should strive for is a very healthy balance of views and a mix of folks who favour the underlying protocols as well as Astar Network. That way, if someone is seemingly biased or anti-biased against one project and/or the network, the other ambassadors can call them out. This establishes a healthy discourse, which makes it much easier for the ASTR holder to make decisions.

In fact, I’d even go so far as to say that your post and the comments here are itself a testament to how - if appropriately prompted - people will start presenting their points in a very constructive manner.

[Juminstock]

@FFR23

2. I don’t see a Conflict of Interest section.
   Even the Neurolanche Ambassador program has this section

I find it concerning I have to be the person to raise all of these points and no-else seems to care enough to dig into this (or as i previously stated, other projects see it but are afraid to speak up).

As I see it we can’t all be in EVERYTHING, speaking first of all for myself, I am very busy doing events, creating content and managing communities around Astar, I dedicate most of my time to creation so I can’t be attentive to the other aspects of Astar, like this particular point.

I know that my colleagues are probably in a similar situation. Speaking of @Gaius_sama, he deals with too many things related to Astar.

However, remember that the ambassador program belongs to the community, so, thank you @FFR23 for raising your concern and this particular point with the whole community, you have started an interesting discussion, as far as I am concerned.

@psneemo

What we should strive for is a very healthy balance of views and a mix of folks who favour the underlying protocols as well as Astar Network. That way, if someone is seemingly biased or anti-biased against one project and/or the network, the other ambassadors can call them out. This establishes a healthy discourse, which makes it much easier for the ASTR holder to make decisions.

This point seems to me important and vital to keep in mind in this discussion.

[SFY_Labs]

@psneemo

majority of members who are rational and support a healthy and positive discussion.

A quick question, just a hypothesis, if the UCG that you received next month were to go from 17 million Astar to 1 million, for any trivial technical reason, let’s assume lack of funds to manage everything, and after a debate managed not by the entire community but from 20 ambassadors + the core team, we move back to a new UCG, you and your team, net of the fact that it is a decision declared and debated in the forum, what would you do?

technically no contract is signed and there is no obligation.

This is exactly what happened to us on dapp staking, and the majority of the discussions were neither positive nor healthy. Indeed, to support a technical need (too many wasted funds) we moved on to something else without taking into account the needs of the developers which should be the main point of everything.

This is to say that the perception you have is due to your personal history which in your case was positive, not everyone has experienced the same thing.

[Matt]

Agreed with all this from G. It can be done right with transparency, honesty and impartiality!

[Leo]

Absolutely, I agree with this. @Matt

Ambassadors should especially support projects without discrimination and emphasize the important features of Astar as a whole.

Additionally, we should embrace Japanese culture and aim to be a welcoming ecosystem.

[Gaius_sama]

In terms of blame i think you are incorrect - an agent can just delete their account and walk away. This will come back on the Astar brand if a project goes to 0 that was promoted by Astar ambassadors

We have different opinions on this subject. I think people build their brand and reputation in Web3 by being active on social media and creating their own communities. It can take years to build up a solid reputation and a sizeable community, but if someone ends up promoting a scam, they’ll lose it all very quickly and that’s years of work down the drain. Even if they come back with a new name, the internet will always remember and find them. Trying to become a public figure with bad intentions is not a good strategy.

1. List of Ambassdors
   I found some X accounts listed no longer exist

Thanks for notifying this, we’ve had a few community accounts shut down by Twitter over the past few months. This may be the reason why these accounts have been closed. I’ll check with the agent concerned and update the list.

2. I don’t see a Conflict of Interest section.
   Even the Neurolanche Ambassador program has this section

Please feel free to suggest something as part of this discussion. I’m open to debate on how we should view conflicts of interest, as they can be arbitrary.

Regarding Neurolanche and SFY Labs/Age of Chronos mentioned several times in this topic. This is off-topic and I invite all participants to use the corresponding topics to avoid drifting from the main subject. We will automatically remove all messages that are not relevant to the discussion.

• AGE OF CHRONOS : dApp Staking proposal - #104 by FFR23
• Transparency- Txs (Neurolanche)

I won’t comment on these points, as they don’t concern the ecosystem agent program.

@FFR23 You seem to have something personal against Neurolanche and you are supporting of SFY Labs, that’s your right but please use the existing topics to share your opinions, arguments or support. If necessary, you can also open new topics.

Besides, if no one speaks up or supports your arguments, it’s not always because they’re afraid to speak up, but it may be that they disagree with your opinion or aren’t interested in discussion. The same applies to my messages or those of others, and we must respect the silence of others. We’ve had other topics in the past where many members of the community who are usually silent have spoken their minds.

[FFR23]

@Gaius_sama

Regarding Neurolanche and SFY Labs/Age of Chronos mentioned several times in this topic. This is off-topic and I invite all participants to use the corresponding topics to avoid drifting from the main subject. We will automatically remove all messages that are not relevant to the discussion.

If SFY Labs had an ambassador program and had ambassadors on their payroll, I’m sure their experience here would have been very different to what they experienced.

@FFR23 You seem to have something personal against Neurolanche and you are supporting of SFY Labs, that’s your right but please use the existing topics to share your opinions, arguments or support. If necessary, you can also open new topics

Nothing personal whatsoever, I stated in my initial post that i provide in my opinion healthy skepticism and ask questions.
I don’t even think NL have scam intentions. I believe them to be an (possibly overly) ambitious project that use questionable marketing techniques but they should be independent of the Astar Network reputationally if they were to fail (just like any other project, currently existing or in the future).
Leo wants what is best for the Astar network and i believe him, but NL could also be a threat to the Astar network if they overleverage, fail and cause users to lose money by the NEUROX token going to 0.
I am simply trying to pre-emptively get ahead of this situation.

Please feel free to suggest something as part of this discussion. I’m open to debate on how we should view conflicts of interest, as they can be arbitrary.

Personally, if an ambassador is receiving any financial payment in any form from an existing Astar dApp, I believe they should not be an Astar ambassador at the same time for reasons i have already stated (and some ambassadors agree with if you read the existing comments).

Besides, if no one speaks up or supports your arguments, it’s not always because they’re afraid to speak up, but it may be that they disagree with your opinion or aren’t interested in discussion. The same applies to my messages or those of others, and we must respect the silence of others. We’ve had other topics in the past where many members of the community who are usually silent have spoken their minds.

I’m not asking for support from anyone. I’m asking for the opinion of ambassadors on the payroll for a dApp. I want to see if they are bias / impartial one way or the other. In fact, if they don’t support what i say, i will respect that more than what could be perceived as cowardly silence.

This is a professional environment. These people are ambassadors / super users in a forum for discussion. I don’t see the issue with asking for their opinion. I believed ambassadors were meant to be subject matter experts all things Astar. I personally don’t see the issue here. If they are on a payroll, they should have to give an opinion…but that is just my opinion.

[Leo]

Hello, friend. I respect you. We are the only project in dApp staking that doesn’t give a single bonus to stakers for excessive marketing.

Moreover, we have undertaken a massive six-month work period in the design of the Nerox token. If you wish, you can reach me via email, and I can send you my mathematical work.

It wouldn’t be quite right for me to post and respond to messages under this topic, but believe me, if we had done aggressive marketing, by now we would have worked with all my influencer connections and reached a more valuable position than many parachains on Polkadot.

Additionally, I personally expend a great deal of effort on Astar ambassadorship, keeping it completely independent from Neurolanche.

I joined the Polkadot ecosystem in 2018 and crypto in 2015. I am one of the oldest users of this ecosystem. What I want to emphasize here is that you can always reach out to me if there’s a problem, but promoting us under different topics would be a conflict of interest, and I think you are here under a different identity.

Moreover, all Astar ambassadors, including myself, have been contributing to this ecosystem for at least 1-2 years. Many Astar ambassadors do this voluntarily and receive small rewards in return.

The core team has built a very strong structure for the Astar ambassador system. The primary goal of every Astar ambassador is to add value to the Astar ecosystem. If you truly believe you can add value to this ecosystem, instead of giving examples of different projects, present your suggestions within logical frameworks.

As I said, you can bring your good work to a vote by presenting it through governance. Be assured, the Astar community is independent and always thinks within a logical framework.

We always respond and support transparently and correctly. Thank you.

[FFR23]

I’m not derailing this thread @Leo so let’s end the NL side discussion.

Moreover, we have undertaken a massive six-month work period in the design of the Nerox token. If you wish, you can reach me via email, and I can send you my mathematical work.

In summary; token price may go up, or moon, or down, or to zero. No-one can guarantee anything into the future, especially with crypto.

I’m invested in pre-sale for projects that have spent years trying to get the token formula right and still haven’t launched, or “market conditions” haven’t been right for them. A common story in crypto.

This isn’t about NL directly. I am actually just using your project as a live example.

This is about future proofing the ambassador program against current and future potential projects.

I have already made my points and so have other ambassadors who are in agreement.

I clearly want what is best for the Astar Network ONLY by wanting to introduce additional controls. I’m actually hoping people can come up with additional controls to introduce besides “conflict of interest”.

If Astar core team and majority of ambassadors think there is no need for any more controls, and the system is perfect as is with no flaws whatsoever, then I will abide by the decision.

Reputational risk / damage is the one thing money can’t buy.

Look no further than Acala.

[SFY_Labs]

@FFR23

If Astar core team and majority of ambassadors

This is the real problem, how much people we are talking? 20-30? And this is the decentralized way we want to promote?Voting education for the entire community has never been promoted, even in dapp staking all the things devised to make stakers active are a perfect failure to date. I clearly remember that an excellent project like VLS before the start of the last Voting period was in tier 4 with a few million astr, today however they are rightly very supported. How can this not be the result of non-decentralized management and tied to a system with incentives towards the non-movement of stakers?

[Leo]

It is incorrect to think that VeryLong Swap achieved success in dApp staking because it was supported by the Astar team.

I don’t know how well you understand the Astar ecosystem, but the Astar Network predominantly has a Japanese community. In the Very Long Swap team, there are famous individuals from Japan, like Haiti. The team has reached these numbers thanks to their close work with the community.

Additionally, discussing projects that are not present here repeatedly violates the topic. If you have an issue, you can open topics about those projects.

Moreover, the Astar Network core team (for example, @Jerad ) has always acted independently and impartially in supporting projects to this day. During this process, they support projects working in innovative areas independently.

To this day, I have never witnessed an ambassador blindly supporting a project in exchange for something. Rest assured, all ambassadors independently conduct their reviews and support projects objectively when they receive messages from them.

@FFR23 Additionally, I would like to mention that no scam projects have emerged from the Astar ecosystem in the last two years. The biggest reason for this is the valuable Astar ambassadors, who you think are centralized but are actually deeply focused on decentralization.

Rest assured, the Astar community is more independent, impartial, and decentralized than CD. Additionally, you mentioned that governance is not much discussed, but in the two articles I wrote, many people have started to learn about this governance.

Best Regards to CD

[SFY_Labs]

@Leo

It is incorrect to think that VeryLong Swap achieved success in dApp staking because it was supported by the Astar team.

We not write absolutely this Leo. We write exactly the opposite. We blame the model of dapp staking , not the dapp or the team, this model that is based on some rule that are:
-1 voted by basically always the same person (facts)
2- not incentive the stakers to change (at least until last voting period)

This is wrong because a good dapp is a good dapp.

So for remaining in the context…If some ambassador have double roule, and all the proposal are voted by few of them, what we are talking about if not a centralized way to do something?

[SFY_Labs]

In any case, these comments are in my opinion the result of yet another wrong attitude on the part of @Gaius_sama Gaius. Maarten asked what was wrong. Honestly, we don’t even know @FFR23 and he has been a member long before we were here, he simply expressed his opinion of him, as many others have done in the past. since we reported the problems with dapp staking and ucg, reality says that these two things have been changed…so obviously there were some problems… and unfortunately there would be much more to do. When we said that 2 million were not enough for an impactful UCG, we were mocked, now we are at 17… Pointing out that a person who poses a problem is pro SFY and against NL honestly seems like an unhelpful thing to say and above all with a very specific intent, which I certainly don’t expect from the core team. The core team should explain much more, such as how to change dapp staking for the worse and with the vote of 20 people and expect those who spent resources to build it to remain silent.

[SFY_Labs]

@Leo

Additionally, discussing projects that are not present here repeatedly violates the topic. If you have an issue, you can open topics about those projects.

Let’s add yet another explanation so as not to be misunderstood once again… now it seems like the rule here… We consider VLS a dapp that in the previous period suffered a disadvantage compared to other dapps for the simple reason that a rule Not really voted neither from the community nor from all the developers, it said that if you moved the funds to other dapps you did not receive bonuses in astr. This led to the dapp having even less support than AoC which was already in the delisting phase. How can this be explained? it’s not the point of the discussion, it’s what comes from it. if there are few people who vote and the same ones always have a clear direction that tends almost exclusively to go in the direction indicated by the core team and in some cases to benefit friendly projects, it is clear that this is not the case. can lead to a healthy system.

[souleater]

@FFR23

Honestly, for any new project reading this, they are probably surprised to learn that dual ambassadorship exists…I just want this topic put to bed once and for all so that we can focus on innovative and technological solutions going forward.

I would welcome any feedback from ambassadors and current existing dual ambassadors in particular.

If no response or opinion is received, this further proves my point that innovation and free speech is being impacted by this existing structure, and that people fear giving honest feedback for fear of what will happen as a result.

Hello there,

Actually there were. A lot of people doing dual-role ambassador thing, but usually it is on a different fields or different ecosystem so it didnt conflict with each other. Myself once was asked by Paras to become their ambassador for 3 months, but since I knew them from 2020 (Astar still named Plasm) and I meet with the team IRL so I decided to help them, with hope it could attract user to its dapps thus increasing Astar value. And one particular reason that I want to help them is because they already launched their tokens a long time ago. So no overhype or overpromise.

@FFR23

For reference, Astar reputation took a hit during the Yoki rewards announcement (this is a fact, not my opinion. Check the Discord at the time). You only have a finite amount of reputational hits you can take.

Honestly, I’m online everyday on DC, which reputation took a hit? Most of Yoki players get rewarded, however it is depending to the amount of tx. For those who just doing daily minting are happy though, the ones who hardly complaining most of them who dont have multiple Yokis from different breed. Yoki didn’t have any complicated task like other project campaign, if a user liked NFTs from a project they are very welcomed to buy (and speculate)., even few members of my own local group just doing daily minting is eligible for reward.

[FFR23]

@Leo

@FFR23 Additionally, I would like to mention that no scam projects have emerged from the Astar ecosystem in the last two years. The biggest reason for this is the valuable Astar ambassadors, who you think are centralized but are actually deeply focused on decentralization

In my opinion scam project does not come down to bad intentions. A project that stops developing for whatever reason i would consider a scam.

My very first post in this forum bro - linked below.

New dapp staking proposal: The Royal Raffle

“What about them makes me think they’re high risk?” First and foremost, the gruesome bear market lows we’ve just experienced for the last year + If something looks too good or easy to be true it usually is. This bear market liquidated many leveraged treasures so my first instinct from the detail I have (not much) is that Kusama Kingdom treasuries may have performed similarly. I also remember that Kusama Kingdom had high exposure to RomeDAO which may have resulted in loss of funds as an examp…

Now look at their X profile, no tweet since May

https://x.com/RoyalRaffledapp

This was obvious to me, yet look at all the ambassadors who voted yes to list, even some guaranteeing their behavior. I was the only one critical in there.

I am sure if someone cared to look hard enough at all the dApps who don’t have enough Astar staked to them, you will find a few dead projects who have stopped developing on Astar but remain listed.

But AOC get delisted for being vocal with fair honest feedback - very unfair in my opinion. (my last comment on that topic as i know the admins want it in a separate thread but i feel it relevant for my point here).

Edit: @Leo I find it naive that you are so quick to defend every project currently on Astar when you have no idea what their intentions are behind the scenes. You are putting your word on the line by saying “rest assured” and it loses meaning when you have no knowledge of the facts or ways to verify. Your hands are very full at NL as you have stated so how can you confirm for other projects or ambassadors? Just more arrogance and hubris to think otherwise.

Rest assured, the Astar community is more independent, impartial, and decentralized than CD. Additionally, you mentioned that governance is not much discussed, but in the two articles I wrote, many people have started to learn about this governance.
Best Regards to CD

No idea what you are talking about but thanks for showing a glimpse of your unhinged behavior for all to see.

Again, i don’t see your logic for being against implementing additional controls for ambassadors.

[FFR23]

. A lot of people doing dual-role ambassador thing, but usually it is on a different fields or different ecosystem so it didnt conflict with each other.

Ok, thanks for agreeing with my point i guess.

My entire discussion is around conflicts of interest.

And one particular reason that I want to help them is because they already launched their tokens a long time ago. So no overhype or overpromise.

Yes, now imagine you didn’t have experience with them and they offered you tokens to help promote even though you never used their product.
Not very honest in my opinion if one was to say yes.

Honestly, I’m online everyday on DC, which reputation took a hit? Most of Yoki players get rewarded, however it is depending to the amount of tx. For those who just doing daily minting are happy though, the ones who hardly complaining most of them who dont have multiple Yokis from different breed. Yoki didn’t have any complicated task like other project campaign, if a user liked NFTs from a project they are very welcomed to buy (and speculate)., even few members of my own local group just doing daily minting is eligible for reward.

Search Yoki in General and you will find complaints mate. Yoki campaign was botted to death by people at the top of the leaderboard. Sure some people were happy, but the complaints outweigh them by a wide margin.

[SFY_Labs]

@FFR23

But AOC get delisted for being vocal with fair honest feedback

just to be honest, WE don’t think the delist is unfair. It was obvious it happened. But what wasn’t right is the way the rules were changed (without a real vote) and the way a senseless discussion continued afterwards, which was only intended to protect the choices made without taking anything into account . This is serious. Then yes, checks should be carried out on the dapps.

My comments on AoC must be separated because even if it is a clear example of how some Ambassadors with dual roles worked badly and with personal interests, it was such a huge piece of bullshit that it was not defensible. it casts too much discredit on the entire project and it is clearly right that we don’t talk about it…

[bao]

Thank you for raising this issue. I’ve read the entire thread. Although other topics came up along the way, I’ll only comment on Dual Amb.

I’m a Dual Amb for both Astar and Lucky. I chose to be a Dual Amb because I believe that as Lucky grows, it will help spread Polkadot ecosystem technology, which will also positively impact the Astar ecosystem. Of course, I follow the Astar Agent’s Code of Conduct.

If there are individuals violating the Code of Conduct, I think they should be warned. If they don’t improve after that, we may need to consider revoking their membership. Currently, when making community decisions, we use either Forum voting or Town Hall voting, so I imagine one of these methods would be used.

Everyone has their own values, and it’s hard to say which is right. However, if there are opinions to be shared, I believe we can move forward by making decisions using the methods currently available to us.

[pitcoin777]

@FFR23

I think that ambassadors should be EITHER Astar OR Neuro - one should not have both roles. There is a conflict of interest risk here for many reasons.

I always have this in my mind! Even if the people have good intentions, there will always be conflict of interest.

It would be great if the core team and the foundations establish more clear rule about it. I 100% support your arguments.

Thanks for bringing this topic to discussion, ser.