Neemo Finance: UCG application grant

@DrCAO
Thanks for your warm comments! Let me answer your questions below.

  1. How will the team ensure the security of the LST protocol? Who will control the Astar tokens that users stake on the protocol?

First of all, we build a non-custodial LST that doesn’t control your ASTR.

Regarding security, we prioritize it through a three-layer approach, in addition to extensive internal testing:

  1. Audit Company:
    We will have an audit from an audit firm as usual, allowing users to confidently utilize our protocol.

  2. Peer Audit:
    We have an auditor on our team who performs preliminary and continuous audits before engaging an external audit company, providing extra security.

  3. Onchain Security to Prevent Malicious Activities:
    By integrating SphereX, we can address errors beyond the code itself. SphereX helps prevent exploitations caused by operational errors or other issues, ensuring a more secure environment for our operations.

  1. Bifrost has implemented loop staking to enhance staking rewards and collaborates with Hydration for additional cross-chain rewards. Do you have any plans to work with other projects on Astar for similar initiatives?

We will enhance rewards through our defi legos including leveraged staking which is similar to Bifrost’s loop staking.
Also we’ll definitely collaborate with other defi protocols. Unlike the traditional model where staked assets often remain static in valuation, nsASTR adopts a price increase structure similar to wstETH and LDOT. This approach allows seamless utilization in lending or any DeFi protocol without extra connectors since it’s not a rebase token, making adaptations easy.

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Got your points. Thank you a lot for your clarification =)

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Hey thanks for your comments and questions. Also, as Seiya already explained our focus will be to secure multiple DeFi partnerships so we can offer users the ability to earn compounded yield. In fact, our dual staking models are being built to allow users to hedge their ASTR deposits effectively.

They give you, the user, the complete freedom and opportunity to decide how you want to manage your ASTR holdings and earn returns and carefully hedge away the price volatility associated with the ASTR token.

Hope that helps!

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Hi Neemo team :slight_smile: It’s really interesting to read your answers and I’m glad to see that you are active and responding in time.
I’m quite intrigued by the initial plan of the dApp launch, since the launch is planned on Astar EVM and not zkEVM I would be curious to understand which partners you would like to collaborate with. Frankly, DeFi on Astar EVM is quite limited and maybe I’m missing something but I can’t understand on which protocols you would like to build your DeFi lego strategy. If possible could you share some names or dApps to do a deeper analysis?

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Thank you for your comment.

We are planning to first launch on AstarEVM and subsequently on L2. Discussions are already underway with Arthswap, Starlay, Kagla, and Muuu on AstarEVM. As one of the DeFi lego components, Leveraged staking will be built independently by Neemo. We have several other partnership in the pipeline, but we ask for your patience as we are not yet able to disclose all the details.

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Hey guys, to better explain Standard and Timelocked Staking we have prepared this thread. Please have a look here: x.com

If you have any further questions, don’t hesitate to ask us :slight_smile:

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Thanks for all the explanations so far! A lot of intresting stuff. Agreeing that another DeFi Protocol is always great. But would love to see that aswell on the L2.

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I really have many of the concerns that other agents have.

Should we have an LST protocol in Astar that is supported by UCG?

Is the work of these developers reliable? Since they had a lot of problems in the past

Regarding LST/ I am concerned about several things, and they are:

Can LST projects expand to other projects or ecosystems outside of Astar?

I follow LST projects for a long time and most of them stayed in one place for lack of users and liquidity, many tokens became illiquid and many people were trapped, there is still a lack of effective mechanisms to help concentrate liquidity in the LST, these projects depend on a lot of liquidity, for me right now are unnecessary while Astar is growing, since there are other types of projects more attractive to users and easier to manage, and that can take better advantage of the UCG.

The first questions I answer myself, you are an anonymous team with a gray past, and right now I think that developing LST in Astar without the necessary liquidity is a waste of time and will only create discomfort in the community.

Thank you.

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Hi @SeiyaChida

Thanks for the detailed responses.

  1. Although new and exisiting developers all can apply for the UCG program, the team having ample experiences should be able to deply their dApp for contributing to Astar Network growth; hence, personally I think dApp staking is more suitable in this case. And the current voting seems to show the community sentiment toward this application, as majority voters (in the top 20) seem negative now.
  1. Sharing only the current TVLs might be too simple to devlier the message. Over more than two years of activities from the three dApps you have deployed, the ATH TVLs were marked in the early 2022 and kept being reduced regardless of the market condition, compared to, for example, Algem. So I am concerned if this time is completely different from what you were experiencing so far, and if you think if it is the case, then it would be great to be detailed here to clear this concern.

  2. On top of it, you mentioned that you benchmarked and drew the target percentage of 8% at the end of this year. And the targeted 8% (36m) already exceeded the current total DeFi TVL on Astar Network, according to DefiLlama, and even higher than Algem’s current TVL (14m), though it could be achievable at the end of this year.

If you say it is “just” a number you mentioned and it can change accordinging to market conditions, then I suggest you to share more detailed target numbers and reasons in the coming months (at least more than 4 months for the UCG program period in case accepted) under the worst/moderate/best market conditions. And those numbers should be referenced to evaluate the achievement over the UCG program period.

  1. I happened to see the GitHub activities for the three dApps, but I was not able to find major commits since the last commits in 2022. So it would be great if you can clarify or share detailed plan to develop Neemo Finance on Astar EVM. As it is unique and different from the other three, there must be major commits and developments from the Neemo Finance.
  1. In this response, if I am not mistaken, Starlay, Kagla, and Muuu are the dApps on your team, so the only ongoing discussion in the ecosystem is with Arthswap. But I am not sure if this is because of unavailability to disclose more details. In any case, it would be really great if further discussions are also on the way with other DeFi protocols on Astar EVM.
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Hi @Vangardem

This is a response from @psneemo. Since there is a 3-time reply restriction for new user in the same topic, on behalf of him I reply back to you.

===
Hey thanks for your comment and questions. We’ll address your concerns regarding liquidity in LSTs first and then proceed to address concerns around the team.

Regarding liquidity:
LST projects can be deployed on one and/or several networks depending on which network they decide to build the architecture for. For instance, an LST project built on Ethereum can also be built on Solana if there’s enough potential in Solana liquid staking. Lido, for example, has already done that in the past.

Regarding concentration of liquidity: the way LSTs function is that users deposit their native network tokens and earn LSTs in return. And because users get the LST in return, they don’t get “trapped”. They can easily unstake their tokens and get their principal + rewards back. That’s the basic of how most (if not all) LSTs work.

“LSTs are unnecessary while Astar is growing…”

I don’t agree with this. dApp staking is fundamental to any Astar network’s growth. They incentivize users to stake their tokens. Just think about two scenarios:

  1. Without LST: You get to stake your tokens on the network. They get locked. You don’t have any liquidity on them.
  2. With LST: You get to liquid stake your tokens on the network. You get the LST in return. You can use it in DeFi. You can unstake to get your native token back. You don’t need to wait for any unbonding period.

The 2nd scenario is better for capital efficiency and cuts out any opportunity costs.

Now, for concerns regarding the team:
The team members are not anonymous. In fact, we have already shared the LinkedIns of the team members above. We are an experienced team that has already built out great products on both Astar and Ethereum in the past. Lastly, our objective is to act as a positive force within the Astar community and create a product that is well aligned with the growth of the Astar Network.

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Hi @pithecus, thanks for your questions. I have already answered some of them in the forum, but I’ll reply back to you for clarity.

  1. Although new and exisiting developers all can apply for the UCG program, the team having ample experiences should be able to deply their dApp for contributing to Astar Network growth; hence, personally I think dApp staking is more suitable in this case. And the current voting seems to show the community sentiment toward this application, as majority voters (in the top 20) seem negative now.

Thank you for your understanding. I don’t understand your intention of choosing the top 20, but the majority of voters and the number of votes are YES.

  1. Sharing only the current TVLs might be too simple to devlier the message. Over more than two years of activities from the three dApps you have deployed, the ATH TVLs were marked in the early 2022 and kept being reduced regardless of the market condition, compared to, for example, Algem. So I am concerned if this time is completely different from what you were experiencing so far, and if you think if it is the case, then it would be great to be detailed here to clear this concern.

First of all, LST, Lending, Stable DEX, and Yield Optimizer are completely different. In the case of LST, there is a relatively strong incentive to deposit because the rewards depend on Astar’s dApp staking rewards.

Regarding Algem, as you mentioned, the TVL has hardly increased based on the amount of ASTR since May 2023. This is likely because people who deposited have left their assets there, resulting in very little inflow. After accumulating TVL, we plan to optimize the adoption of dApp staking and further build DeFi legos to maximize incentives. Additionally, through the milestones mentioned above, we plan to approach both within and outside the Astar Network.

  1. On top of it, you mentioned that you benchmarked and drew the target percentage of 8% at the end of this year. And the targeted 8% (36m) already exceeded the current total DeFi TVL on Astar Network, according to DefiLlama, and even higher than Algem’s current TVL (14m), though it could be achievable at the end of this year.
    If you say it is “just” a number you mentioned and it can change accordinging to market conditions, then I suggest you to share more detailed target numbers and reasons in the coming months (at least more than 4 months for the UCG program period in case accepted) under the worst/moderate/best market conditions. And those numbers should be referenced to evaluate the achievement over the UCG program period.

We will do our best to achieve our goals, but we feel that your suggestion is a bit unfair. I recall that the purpose of UCG is to provide opportunities for both new and existing developers with new protocols. Detailed TVL plans beyond three months and those numbers to be referenced to evaluate the achievement over the UCG program period are not required.

What you are asking for is equivalent to demanding specific TVL or revenue figures from a pre-seed startup. This level of requirement is usually expected from Series A companies with some historical revenue. It’s extremely difficult to create detailed projections and actual numbers without past data.

I have also reviewed other UCG grants, and none have been asked to provide such detailed information. We believe we have provided more information, including a roadmap, than other dApps. Did you ask the same from other dApps in the UCG proposal? If so, did you obtain the following information you mentioned below? If so, please share it with us. We’ll consider adding the numbers to be evaluated in the UCG period then.

“At least more than 4 months for the UCG program period in case accepted under the worst/moderate/best market conditions. And those numbers should be referenced to evaluate the achievement over the UCG program period.”

  1. I happened to see the GitHub activities for the three dApps, but I was not able to find major commits since the last commits in 2022. So it would be great if you can clarify or share detailed plan to develop Neemo Finance on Astar EVM. As it is unique and different from the other three, there must be major commits and developments from the Neemo Finance.

As I have mentioned repeatedly, most of Neemo’s members are not part of the Starlay team. Also we do not want to mix discussions about Starlay with those about Neemo, but you can see the relevant information by looking at Starlay’s details. Medium might be a useful reference for you (Starlay Finance – Medium). Even after 2022, Starlay have continued development on Wasm, mobile support, leveraged staking, and expansion to other chains. Starlay is still active beyond 2022, and this can be verified on GitHub as well.

Regarding Neemo’s development, we have already documented the development details and roadmap. Could you please review them?

  1. In this response, if I am not mistaken, Starlay, Kagla, and Muuu are the dApps on your team, so the only ongoing discussion in the ecosystem is with Arthswap. But I am not sure if this is because of unavailability to disclose more details. In any case, it would be really great if further discussions are also on the way with other DeFi protocols on Astar EVM.

Again as I have mentioned repeatedly, most of Neemo’s members are not part of the Starlay team. Therefore, Starlay, Kagla, and Muuu are not the dApps on our team and need to discuss with each of protocols. Furthermore, in the case of Starlay, there is a governance system, so decisions cannot be made solely at my discretion. As I mentioned, we are making preparations for partnerships, which include other protocols on AstarEVM.

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Well, truth be told, I have been misunderstood, I think that right now this project is unnecessary because it depends on a sufficient amount of capital to operate and give counterpart to the stakers, ASTR (dApp Staking V3), by itself achieves this and so far has proven to be efficient, my fear is that there is not a fully mature ecosystem in DeFi to go further, I still wish them success!

We are seeing an example of how bad reputations can mark negatively protocols and team members (Starlay issues). I hope the team can figure it out and make your own way to UCG or either without UCG I hope to see the improvements in the protocol.

Sorry the above post had to be deleted because for some reason it wasn’t showing as a reply. I’m reposting the same comment here as a reply to @pitcoin777

Hey thanks for your comment. As we have stated above already, we are a doxxed team. We’ve already expressed our competencies above stating our prior experiences in building LSTs/LRTs. I, personally, am not associated with Starlay in any capacity.

I come from a purely Ethereum-based LST/LRT solution and understand that space very well. I also see a lot of potential in dApp and staking and am devoted to having our team do our best to build a highly capable product for Astar Network.

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I’m sorry you feel that way. Liquid dApp staking presents a huge potential within the Astar Network because it allows users to earn boosted rewards while having liquidity on their capital. On the contrary, in fact, I think that liquid dApp staking incentivizes ASTR holders to stake their tokens and earn those rewards.

We’ve attempted to explain this above. Moreover, here are some threads too that explain this better:

We also aim to publish one thread today that further explains Automated DeFi Strategies. So stay tuned for that!

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Hello @SeiyaChida @psneemo

Congratulations! :tada:

The voting is passed.

To proceed with the registration, please do the following:

  1. Have a native Astar wallet with some transferrable 10 ASTR. Share the address here. No ledger wallet or EVM wallet.
  2. Have a verified smart contract on Astar Network (Layer 1) and share the contract address here. No zkEVM smart-contract.
  3. Add #astar-network, #dAppStaking tags to your GitHub repo.
  4. Fill the form to be added to the Ecosystem Page on the Astar Network website.
    Link: https://forms.gle/J5BAy1rct1oTojwk7

Guide: Register dApp | Astar Docs

We will whitelist your addresses for dApp Staking.

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Congratulations to the team. I hope we’ll get to do some cool things together. =)

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Thank you, I’m quite certain we will!!

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Finally they have been accepted in the grant and I wish them all the best and that they can make a great project… Success

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Thank you, we strive to build a great product that generates immense value for the entire Astar community!

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