New dapp staking proposal: The Royal Raffle

[moonme]

I’d prefer you to use the remaining rewards to build something instead of investing it into ecosystem projects.

In this case, we can have KPIs on what you are building. If you don’t achieve the KPIs, we can vote to delist you.

Investing into projects is just a money game and might get you rekted and if you continue investing into rekted projects, those funds are wasted without any KPIs being achieved.

Getting the dApp rewards is fun, but we do not want it to be abused.

For this reason, my vote is a no.

[1xKBL]

To build something? That is a great idea tbh.

Maybe that should be a long term goal of the project once we accrue enough rewards to seed something.

Phase 1: Keep rewards within the ecosystem to help liquidity etc
Phase 2: Once we have enough rewards built up to seed a project that we think further benefits the eco we use them for that.

The dapp is then multifaceted, in its infancy it supports user growth and staking in the eco (net positive) with a long term aim of developing a future project.

The underlying message we want to come through here is that we are going to be adding value to the Astar ecosystem through this and not be dapp reward mercenaries.

[FFR23]

If this proposal does go through, it is absolutely key that KPI’s are implemented and transparency is 100% at a minimum. There should be zero trust that funds won’t be mis-used just based off previous built-up reputation (as this recent year in crypto has proven).

In addition to concerns outlined from other users above, the “King’s Bounty” and “Queen’s Jewel” sound like high-risk investment strategies to me.

How do we know that Kusama Kingdom is not desperately short of funds and are trying add funds from Astar dapp staking to cover up liquidity issues?

Will they be just using Astar dapp staking funds to make free bets essentially with zero risk of losing their own capital?

Assuming they will answer no to both of the above questions - How do we know that this is the case? Is there any proof that can be provided? (Proof can be provided to trusted mods in private if necessary).

I am just playing Devil’s advocate and in no way making any accusations - just adding these points and hoping to be proven wrong in response.

Thanks

[1xKBL]

Hey,

Thanks for the comments.

‘In addition to concerns outlined from other users above, the “King’s Bounty” and “Queen’s Jewel” sound like high-risk investment strategies to me.’ - What about them makes you think they are high risk? We are conservative in our approach to investing and throughout last year out performed the market by a considerable margin with the Kings Bounty. The Queens Jewels runs defi strategies that are largely Delta Neutral and thus incredibly low risk.

Ramz is a part of our community so i am sure can attest to it, we are definitely not in need of any liquidity but of course we are an opportunistic community just like most and have come up with this proposal in an attempt to benefit our community but at the same time benefit the Astar community, this was of paramount importance to us.

As i agree there is a high risk of dapp proposals coming forward and just draining rewards without 0 value add back and of course reputation can not be the only factor in trust but hopefully it allows us the first step in earning it over time through results and delivery.

[FFR23]

“What about them makes me think they’re high risk?”

First and foremost, the gruesome bear market lows we’ve just experienced for the last year +
If something looks too good or easy to be true it usually is.

This bear market liquidated many leveraged treasures so my first instinct from the detail I have (not much) is that Kusama Kingdom treasuries may have performed similarly.

I also remember that Kusama Kingdom had high exposure to RomeDAO which may have resulted in loss of funds as an example.

Secondly, there are many projects under the umbrella of stakeholders within Kusama Kingdom which generate dividends for holders (e.g. Buddies, Moonbuddies) and also Teddy DAO project.

Will the funds from Astar dApp staking be segregated from these projects given they are sitting outside of Astar?

Another possibility is that the Astar dApp staking reward funds are used to buy the floor price of these NFT’s and being ‘washed’ into the respective treasuries this way.

Finally, what is the plan for liquidity rewards and profit made from seed funding?
It looks to me like the plan for funds or the future isn’t properly documented - “build something” above doesn’t give me much clarity on the value to be gained here.

Will any profits made be funnelled to Kusama Kingdom treasury rather than back into the Astar ecosystem?
What controls are in place to ensure the outcome?

Not sure if a multi sig wallet with a mod from Astar would help cement trust here (or is even possible).

(Please note same disclaimer applies that these are not accusations in the slightest, and just a healthy dose of skepticism as with any proposal to be discussed).

[1xKBL]

All good and completely understand re disclaimer.

Yes the Queens Jewels did have some funds on FTX and as such now has a claim [Trading around 20c on the $] but as part of a response plan to that, we set out community goals of hitting a certain APR for the fund [25%] for the two consecutive quarters and if hit 100% of the funds would be replaced [in 2 instalments] as to not harm the community treasury, 50% of this has already been replenished as we hit the target in the first Q and we expect to have been fully recovered by the end of this Quarter.

Kings Bounty did have exposure to Rome around 10% of our treasury and recovered 50% of it after it was diluted, but have made gains in other areas with more conservative approaches.

Buddies and Moonbuddies is a completely separate project to Kusama Kingdom and is no way associated with the dapp proposal. Teddy DAO is a 100% non profit charity initiative out of Lucky Friday and does not pay dividends in any form it does not even take fees, where did you get this information from? But again it has no association with this proposal.

The ‘Washing’ comment would not be possible as we do not hold any Kusama Kingdom NFTs in our treasury they are all held by the community, 1 King and Queen is held by me (KBL) and ladykusama (artist) but we bought them all off the secondary market.

'It looks to me like the plan for funds or the future isn’t properly documented - “build something” ’ - this was merely a response to a live discussion above, we are building the Royal Raffle so the focus should be on that for the purposes of this discussion

Will any profits made be funnelled to Kusama Kingdom treasury rather than back into the Astar ecosystem? - As mentioned 10% of the dapp rewards we will hold in order to help pay for dev time and other members who will assist with the running and marketing of the project, we see this as a cost in order to grow the pie bigger and hence fuel the dapp.

As mentioned Ramz (Astar team) is an active member of our community and am sure will help moderate the use of funds to ensure alignment is kept. Each month we will be able to publish the Raffle Report which will show the 20% prize 10% reserve and 70% to be deployed into the eco and the wallet can be tracked for all those who wish to check.

[Kabrine]

An interesting proposal, but with delicate points, raised by colleagues, and in fact it makes sense, the need to create something new for the ecosystem, and your proposal still brings more of the same. I am not against it, and I hope that, as they said, they will come to work in the future, creating something new. Here I leave my vote of confidence.

[pluto_nium]

Greetings

I am both a member of the Kusama Kingdom and a participant of the Astar crowdloan and I do support this initiative.

Cheers

[ThePhunkyOne]

Thank you for your input, moonme.

And though you have voted no already, I am curious as to what sort of KPIs had to be laid out by the existing Astar dApps such as Astar Degens et al. I don’t ever recall this being something discussed in the past (feel free to point me to prior discussions of this nature), and it seems strange and arbitrary that this demand be made of us with no prior precedent

In the same breath, however, this is not to say that it would deter us from “building” something, and I can vouch for KBL in stating he has taken this feedback seriously and already brought it back to the Kingdom for our Kings and Queens to discuss

Personally, I think it would be wise for us to stick to the original plan. Building anything costs money and there is no guaranteed economic impact, whereas that capital could be deployed immediately back into the ecosystem to the benefit of all who use it. And, considering you are someone who would take a bag of money over a bag of wisdom, one would assume you would agree

In the end, whatever the vote outcome, as someone who is incredibly excited about the longterm prospects of Astar Network, as well as a Kings Councilor and Kusama Kingdom holder, I can unequivocally state that I am here for the long haul in both communities

[moonme]

Astar Degens has failed with all their investment in the ecosystem projects. Rekted and rugged.

Better to use that money to buuld your own product which someone will use. Don’t rely on a third party. Build your own business.

Most other dApps have also badly failed after taking so much dApp staking rewards. Take a look at the 2 biggest protocols on Astar; Arthswap and Starlay. Can you see anything new on the products? It is still the same forked product.

Yeah, I’d take the money because wisdom cannot be taken. Wisdom can only be earned.

[0xRamz]

I respectfully disagree.

Astar Degens is not “rekted” or “rugged” at all. There were many contributing factors that led to these investments not being as profitable as the community wanted, a community who collectively voted for them with thousands of votes. (Besides, AD is currently sitting at 2x of mint price and 10.8m ASTR volume - pretty awesome for those that invested in the NFT as they all are in the green, no matter the dapp investments )

At the time of the votes, I think we can all attest to the euphoria of a newly launched chain, newly launched incubated showcase dapps, and very few had the hindsight to foresee the incoming bear and the large impact it would have on the dapps (and crypto). Besides poor tokenomics of a couple of those teams, it could have easily gone a different way if market conditions were different. No one can know though.

Either way “rugged” is a bit harsh to use here and unfair to the serious builders at AstridDAO, ArthSwap and Starylay - all which are actually building new products for the ecosystem. I think AD actually indirectly invested in the builders

These are those new products:

AstridDAO: BluezNFT marketplace with with multiple NFT standards, XCM and XVM tech. First for all of Polkadot as well (allowing payment in assets besides ASTR) Bluez Twitter

StarLay: Starlay WASM building out and providing a WASM lending product on Astar. Adding more examples of Wasm helps Astar, builders, and the Polkadot eco.

ArthSwap: ApolloSwap Building out the first ink! based DEX on Polkadot (ApolloSwap Twitter)

And regardless of the investment’s turnout, these builders are still here and contributing. Maybe they created a forked product before, but they are here building new ones with new tech. Actions speak louder, amirite? Starlay are using their dapp rewards to buyback their tokens as per the agreement arranged. Regardless of how we feel about that, they are still around and trying, and now with Wasm. Perhaps the other teams are using these dapp rewards to help with building these new wasm/ink! products.

This is all to say, the Astar Degens investments may not have produced a bag of money, but it may have helped in supporting these builders, even in a small way. AstridDAO building a community focused NFT marketplace will contribute to the ecosystem with a product that is using cutting edge technology (XCM and XVM). I can’t put a number on this, but I know its positive progress for all of us at Polkadot and Astar.

That is value And if one of those new products takes off, than shish who knows the effect it can have. It can even inspire the next builder - who knows, but we need to attract and support builders as they build, not expect them to build first with the prospect of great dapp staking rewards after. This works for some teams, but not all.

We should have options, not a restricted one-way of doing it imo. Case in point is a team I really like, and worked with, - Grabber - with only 6510 ASTR staked with 3 stakers. We can fault the market condition, or not enough marketing, etc, but the hours and months of work without reward for a working product that help us identify top users staking on multiple dapps, well thats deserves something imo. Again, the dapp listing process isn’t perfect, and should have options, especially in this type of market, to maximize our chance of bringing great builders and teams.

Regardless, this is to kindly say that great builders, and dapp staking as a means to support them, can produce value we may not be able to see right now.

And great builders are all over Kusama and Polkadot.

• Kusama Kings have built one of the strongest, active communities I have ever seen with a highly valuable NFT and business model that works + it’s transparent and inclusive.

• They have been around for a very long time and the numbers speak for themselves.

• They have a big wrinkly Phala dev (hashwarlock) that contributes to the growth of Astar products (RMRK ink! implementer, Swanky) and can help our Astar Tech Ambassadors with their own Wasm builds (@GuiGou Lucky dApp)

Building a raffle dapp is the start, but who knows what it can grow to, what other build KK can do, and/or who it can inspire. As @ThePhunkyOne mentioned, @1xKBL already took the feedback from these forum posts and proactively initiated discussions within the community. These are builders that will put in the time and effort, and from first hand experience I know the community is supportive of one another. Actually, those community members are more valuable than any build so them joining the Astar party is beyond incredible in of itself. We would be ever so lucky if they get involved in our eco and use products, marketplaces, and more. All these factors are more than enough to have 200% of my backing.

And the greatest part of this all, is that there are many other strong communities and builders out there, inside and outside our Paraverse, who are also willing to venture and explore Astar. We can do our due diligence with each, and act when we need to act if something doesn’t work out. Astar is strong, really strong, and we all know where its heading. DApps won’t break our blockchain, but the more dapps we have, the more of a chance we may get great builders and strong communities which can make the blockchain shine even more.

I invest in the community and its builders alongside the product. Especially as the speed of this space is fast, products come and go quick. Builders who are supported will truck on. Time to open our arms and let them see the potential of our smart contract hub and dapp staking feature. Its a solid sign of support and an extension of what we value at Astar: Community and Builders.

We can’t see the future but we can give teams an opportunity to experiment and build. All this while being supportive and creating new, positive, long term relationships

[moonme]

Arthswap - have been taking between $45-80k worth of dApp staking rewards per month and did nothing on the existing product. Do you think they deserve this? It is the same pancake fork without any additional features.

Starlay - How is this not a rug? We all know the story. Despite raising funds in their token sale, they loaned 2 million of ASTR from the treasury to buy back their tokens just to give an exit liquidity to their bag holders. This is the most foolish way to put the treasury funds into circulation and yet many people supported this idea. And buying back their tokens using their dApp rewards is also a foolish thing to do. Buying back tokens does NOT build a product. It is only there to create a speculation.

A lot of failures have happened in Astar and we do not want this to happen again.

[0xRamz]

4153 stakers on ArthSwap
2273 stakers on Starlay

The large amount those dapp teams earn is not up to them, its a direct result of the stakers that are staked on them. Wouldn’t your question be better posed to the stakers who are helping them earn those rewards

Im saying this because there is a larger system in place that allow for these imbalances to happen. Expectations for teams to act a certain way if they earn 100 astr a month or 1m astr a month are not deliberately stated or structured in the dapp feature, listing process or proposal requirement. This is something we need to discuss further alongside the community.

These were also “incubated” teams from a year ago, a different time in the market, and their incubation label promoted certain views and actions. This is not the backdrop we should be evaluating and judging future teams on. We def learned, but we instead should place more focus on the process. The dapp listing process and structure is what needs to be scrutinized more, not the “what if’s”. A clear and robust process can answer all those concerns and questions, and determine the answer for us when issues arise - not too different than coding.

Theres currently no structure for how to consistently evaluate projects and hold them accountable. But we can propose solutions to help avoid these issues, and thats what Im trying to help do with this new way of listing and supporting projects. It can help us form a better process with better oversight and clear rules that make it easier to delist inactive teams and/or support and incentivize active ones . Its low risk, and in this case, its with a well established community and builders

I should mention for the readers the dapp staking v3 proposal and its importance. Currently being worked on. Please check it out here: Dapp Staking v3. Leave input if you can

But to come back to the focus of this new dapp staking proposal - and the potential insight to solutions it can offer to the larger process and system:

This Royal Raffle proposal preemptively states a 3 month trial period with a 1.5m ASTR bootstrapping, with oversight and evaluation. This can be a monthly check-in with a clear report of how much was earned and what its used for. I will personally take lead on this and publish these reports here on the forum. We need data. This proposal and KBLs comments have already made it clear what rewards are going to be used for. Anything different would go against the proposal and we can remove bootstrap.

The proposal also is asking a minimal amount that generates a very small fraction of what the average dapp gets right now.

If the process isn’t experimented with, data collected and improvements suggested, than we should expect the imbalances to continue, and the low rate of dapps being built on Astar as well.

This bear is an ideal time to lay the foundation for a well oiled process with expectations and rules that are clear to the whole community and the builders both here and out there. Through this proposal, Kusama Kings and Astar are mutually helping each other.

[moonme]

And this is the reason why I am asking Royal Raffle to build and have KPIs instead of using the rewards to invest into ecosytsem projects.

If the KPI’s are not met, we can vote to delist in the future.

We did not have this in the past, but we want to improve.

[moonme]

Also, what the dApp earns is not up to them. I agree. It is for the stakers to decide.

But, if you were to earn $80k a month from the staking, what would you do?

Buy a yatch live a rich man’s life? Or, you want to contribute to the ecosystem by building?

It is bound to the ethics that the builder has. dApp staking for now, is a failure.

The intention is good, but the human who receive the rewards are not all good.

[JohnBerg]

In my opinion, it is important to have a clear and structured process for evaluating and ensuring responsible use of staking rewards by dApps. It is understandable that teams may have different priorities and goals, but they should always act in the best interest of the ecosystem and community that supports them.

Investments in ecosystem projects can be beneficial if they contribute to the growth and development of the ecosystem as a whole. However, it is important to have a system of checks and balances to ensure that these investments are being used effectively and responsibly.

Ultimately, the success of dApp staking and ecosystem investments relies on the ethics and intentions of the teams involved. We should aim to attract and support builders who are dedicated to creating innovative and valuable products for the ecosystem, and who demonstrate transparency and responsibility in their actions.

[Gaius_sama]

Hello @1xKBL,

The Royal Raffle joined the Unstoppable community grant program at the beginning of November.

How has the development of your dApp gone over the past month? Have you made any progress?

It’s also that time of the month to share your monthly check-in with us, as required by the UCG program .

Please share with us:

• Your progress and what you’re working on;
• Have you reached the milestones set out in your proposal and, if not, why not?
• What are your next milestones and how do you feel about achieving them?
• If you have sold tokens, please indicate the quantity and price at which they were sold, the hash of the transaction and the reason for the sale.

You can find inspiration in the report created by SFY Labs.

[Gaius_sama]

Hello @1xKBL and Happy New Year to your team!

It’s your 2nd month in the UCG program and also time to share your #2 monthly check-in with us, as required by the UCG program .

We’re also waiting for the monthly check-in for your first month in the program. You can merge them into a single report.

Please share with us:

• Your progress and what you’re working on;
• Have you reached the milestones set out in your proposal and, if not, why not?
• What are your next milestones and how do you feel about achieving them?
• If you have sold tokens, please indicate the quantity and price at which they were sold, the hash of the transaction and the reason for the sale.

Thank you!

[1xKBL]

Hey!

Apologies for the delay.

As you mentioned we have been live for two months now and in that time have develped and deployed the dapp ‘The Royal Raffle’ we held the first Raffle on the 22nd December with the winner receieving 20% of the dapp rewards as well as a bonus prize of a Kusama Queen NFT [Floor price of $4k] the results were populated to the website [https://www.kusamakingdom.com/astar]

The next raffle will take place on January 22nd and we will start promoting this on our socials this weekend with another speical prize/

In regards of the tech that has been developed and the VRF (Verifiable Random Function) code was deployed using Chainlink libraries and substituting Phala Phat Contracts in the constructor of the Chainlink Smart Contract to get the traditional audited version of VRF with Phat Contract doing the heavy lifting. We believe this a first so an exciting development.

Full breakdown of how it works here with diagram below:

1. The Developer Rewards are sent to a multi-sig that will distribute funds every 22nd of the month to rewards 20% of the months rewards to the raffle winner
2. When a new raffle is initiated, a random number is generated and stored in off-chain storage. This random number will be a number to match a timestamp between the time of request and the expected end date. We store it in S3 storage to avoid any transactions for changing state
3. The Phat Contract will continue to poll until the timestamp is met then the drawing will occur. The weights are calculated at the current drawing then the winner is selected

We have not sold any tokens and are looking at the best way to provide liquidity to the eco and form a partnership with other teams to do this.

Looking forward to growing this further!

let us know if any other questions

[VasaKing]

I like the idea of the lottery and I still think it is an excellent way of attracting users. I have a couple of questions:

• I’m trying to find Your social channels (X, Insta or Discord) cause I think it´s a great way to create a more direct connection with users but I can’t find anything, I would like to know when you will do them.
• I would like to know how much it is possible to add other betting features such as real events (BTC price or the result of a match of any sport) in addition to the tickets
• I also believe that it is essential to use Astar’s already available dApps for presence on social media (Airlyft first and foremost). Do you intend to organize collaborations with the other dApps?
  I await your reply